Nail Polish
Toes vs. Fingers
Loud colors or no color at all?
Tips?
i think that it is more of a sensitivity issue then halacha, it depends on your sensitivity and the sensitivities of the people around you ( this is true also for long hair)( anonymus, 21)
could you also say it has to do with showing off and being too outlandish?
Sometimes people need an outlet- so yes it can be their way of showing off and being different. But I think wearing bright and showy nail polish is far better than other ways of acting out. (age 21)
Do you think that the length of the nails makes a difference?
not at all but too long is a bit much Dori-Ruth 14
It’s a bit much of what?? Its not tnius? or is it just ugly in your opinion?
It ugly
So if one would think it is pretty/attractive, then it is okay? Doesn’t “ugly” and “pretty” depend on your personal preference? Shouldn’t we have a minimum standard we all follow and keep too and then have lee-ways where we can show our uniqueness? Is the length of one’s nails part of this minimum standard or not?
The whole idea of Tzniut is wanting to refrain from drawing attention to yourself. Yea i think long nails can be untzinut but for the reasons that Its gross and therefore draws attention to yourself....
But then i wonder.... I think the reason that nail polish, hair length, and all that stuff depend on your environment because if it’s the norm (like it’s a very normal thing for people to wear nail polish in the five towns), even the most perverted guy wouldn’t notice it, therefore making it not an issue of tzinut... but if ur in meiasharim then eyes would be popping out... the thing is though we create this norms... so what does that say about the letter of the law though? (21)
The idea of Torah LoBashamayim He I think plays an important role here. There is a certain letter of the law but I think within that letter there is room for communities to decide what is right for them. Tell the five towns that they can’t wear nail polish and maybe people will rebel in worse ways. Therefore by having this quote on quote “leniency” of wearing loud nail polish, you are keeping a lot of people closer to Torah. This concept however is very tricky and i think can only be used WITHIN the letter of the law (21)
Who decides these leniencies? What is the difference between this and what reform or conservative Judaism does?
I had a feeling you would bring that up :) well lets say you make leniencies within the box. The box still remains, intact and surviving for centuries. However if you expand the box itself, it eventually disappears...
It doesn't disappear completely....it is just a rectangle...a different form of a box...
What if playing guitar relaxes me and since that is the essence of Shabbos I should be able to play guitar...it is not against any of the 39 Milachote....and if I were to say “if i can not play guitar on Shabbos then Shabbos and Judaism are not for me” so then what? Allow me to play so that way i stay close to Judaism??? - sounds like appeasement to me.
I think the point of the malachot was to allow us to enjoy shabbos to the maximum. If playing guitar is prohibited, then this must not be the means by which to enjoy the highest of spirituality. And if I were to say that I will leave Judaism if I cannot play, then there was a problem with my value of Judaism in the first place. In the Gemarah I believe it discusses a man who divorces his wife over burnt food- the idea is if two people are going to divorce over something so trivial, there were clearly bigger issues in the marriage.
Do you think that my examples and questions on Shabbos are “random” and do not apply to this topic at hand? Do you think one can connect laws of Shabbos, Kashrute, Shatnez, Lula & Etrog, etc. to the laws of Tznius as well? Please explain.
Is Tznius based on what (perverted) guys think are attracted? Then wouldn’t that be very opinionated and change, since there are soooo many different types of men out there.
I don’t think Tzinus is based entirely of what guys think are attractive, but it definitely is a part of it. Why shouldn’t girls wear tights skirts, because it shows their shape, same with low cut shirts, tight shirts, slits... We want people to see the internal- and they can’t if they are getting distracted by everything else. There are so many different types of men but these universal guidelines (basic halacha of tzinus)I think apply objectively to everyone. I don’t think there is anyone that would say that a mini skirt isn’t more attention grabbing than a knee length skirt. When you come to the nitty gritty details- we need to keep those details because we need a line to draw and we need to follow that. I really think it’s a combination of different things- that all fall together beautifully if kept the right way. (21)
All men have the same, universal ways of thinking, find attractive? Do you think this would change over time or is this something they are “built” with since the beginning of time? Do women have the same internal “hard drive” for common things they find attractive in men?
This doesn’t apply to pants and bathing suits at the beach though (because bathing suits are the norm at the beach) because that is halacha.
then again i’ve realized for me, im not comfortable wearing bright color nail polish anymore because i’ve gotten sensitized to it, I feel like it’s loud... but in the five towns it’s the norm to have that... (DasTorah 20)
Who creates this norm?Why are some communities different than others when it comes to issues like these?
What made you become “sensitized” to this?
you can ask why is any community different from each other- it’s just the way it turned out. Different people in certain places at different times. Conformity is a very powerful thing. People liek when everything makes sense and is clear cut. However, when someone decides to be different and break the norms that’s when trends start. Correct me if I’m wrong, but i’m sure there really only used to be very hebrew music or english music. Now there is maccabeats which is considered hebrew music, but some of it is based off modern songs. Slowly overt time people say reasons why it’s ok, withink Halacha of course.
Also different communities have different focuses- Some communities are more focused on chessed, whereas another is more tzinus, whereas another is more into kiruv..., (which I think is great cause all of us Jews are so different) Sometimes you can’t mesh all of these together (I don’t think a family that highly values tznius to the extent that they don’t want any of their children being exposed to untzinus people can do kiruv...)
But isnt the Torah made for everyone...to everything at once?
Shouldnt it be possible to be “tznius” and do “kiruv” at the same time? Can we not eat kosher and also keep Shabbos?
Focusing on one might not mean ignoring another, but does Hashem want us only focusing on one item? Does He want us to do a little bit of everything?
Are there communities that do it all??
I think i became sensitized to this because the people I started surrounding myself with- shiurs, school.. weren’t wearing bright nail polish so I started feeling uncomfortable wearing it around them, and slowly i started noticing that it was pretty eye grabbing. I don’t deny it was somewhat based on my environment, but I just starting feeling uncomfortable. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that though because I can just look at it as another way to connect to Hashem- It’s another level of modesty.
Because this happened to you personally, how do you view others that do not “hold” by your “standards”?
Do you think what your environment did to you was a good thing? Do you wish you were able to not see nailpolish in this way?
could you also say it has to do with showing off and being too outlandish?
Sometimes people need an outlet- so yes it can be their way of showing off and being different. But I think wearing bright and showy nail polish is far better than other ways of acting out. (age 21)
Do you think that the length of the nails makes a difference?
not at all but too long is a bit much Dori-Ruth 14
It’s a bit much of what?? Its not tnius? or is it just ugly in your opinion?
It ugly
So if one would think it is pretty/attractive, then it is okay? Doesn’t “ugly” and “pretty” depend on your personal preference? Shouldn’t we have a minimum standard we all follow and keep too and then have lee-ways where we can show our uniqueness? Is the length of one’s nails part of this minimum standard or not?
The whole idea of Tzniut is wanting to refrain from drawing attention to yourself. Yea i think long nails can be untzinut but for the reasons that Its gross and therefore draws attention to yourself....
But then i wonder.... I think the reason that nail polish, hair length, and all that stuff depend on your environment because if it’s the norm (like it’s a very normal thing for people to wear nail polish in the five towns), even the most perverted guy wouldn’t notice it, therefore making it not an issue of tzinut... but if ur in meiasharim then eyes would be popping out... the thing is though we create this norms... so what does that say about the letter of the law though? (21)
The idea of Torah LoBashamayim He I think plays an important role here. There is a certain letter of the law but I think within that letter there is room for communities to decide what is right for them. Tell the five towns that they can’t wear nail polish and maybe people will rebel in worse ways. Therefore by having this quote on quote “leniency” of wearing loud nail polish, you are keeping a lot of people closer to Torah. This concept however is very tricky and i think can only be used WITHIN the letter of the law (21)
Who decides these leniencies? What is the difference between this and what reform or conservative Judaism does?
I had a feeling you would bring that up :) well lets say you make leniencies within the box. The box still remains, intact and surviving for centuries. However if you expand the box itself, it eventually disappears...
It doesn't disappear completely....it is just a rectangle...a different form of a box...
What if playing guitar relaxes me and since that is the essence of Shabbos I should be able to play guitar...it is not against any of the 39 Milachote....and if I were to say “if i can not play guitar on Shabbos then Shabbos and Judaism are not for me” so then what? Allow me to play so that way i stay close to Judaism??? - sounds like appeasement to me.
I think the point of the malachot was to allow us to enjoy shabbos to the maximum. If playing guitar is prohibited, then this must not be the means by which to enjoy the highest of spirituality. And if I were to say that I will leave Judaism if I cannot play, then there was a problem with my value of Judaism in the first place. In the Gemarah I believe it discusses a man who divorces his wife over burnt food- the idea is if two people are going to divorce over something so trivial, there were clearly bigger issues in the marriage.
Do you think that my examples and questions on Shabbos are “random” and do not apply to this topic at hand? Do you think one can connect laws of Shabbos, Kashrute, Shatnez, Lula & Etrog, etc. to the laws of Tznius as well? Please explain.
Is Tznius based on what (perverted) guys think are attracted? Then wouldn’t that be very opinionated and change, since there are soooo many different types of men out there.
I don’t think Tzinus is based entirely of what guys think are attractive, but it definitely is a part of it. Why shouldn’t girls wear tights skirts, because it shows their shape, same with low cut shirts, tight shirts, slits... We want people to see the internal- and they can’t if they are getting distracted by everything else. There are so many different types of men but these universal guidelines (basic halacha of tzinus)I think apply objectively to everyone. I don’t think there is anyone that would say that a mini skirt isn’t more attention grabbing than a knee length skirt. When you come to the nitty gritty details- we need to keep those details because we need a line to draw and we need to follow that. I really think it’s a combination of different things- that all fall together beautifully if kept the right way. (21)
All men have the same, universal ways of thinking, find attractive? Do you think this would change over time or is this something they are “built” with since the beginning of time? Do women have the same internal “hard drive” for common things they find attractive in men?
This doesn’t apply to pants and bathing suits at the beach though (because bathing suits are the norm at the beach) because that is halacha.
then again i’ve realized for me, im not comfortable wearing bright color nail polish anymore because i’ve gotten sensitized to it, I feel like it’s loud... but in the five towns it’s the norm to have that... (DasTorah 20)
Who creates this norm?Why are some communities different than others when it comes to issues like these?
What made you become “sensitized” to this?
you can ask why is any community different from each other- it’s just the way it turned out. Different people in certain places at different times. Conformity is a very powerful thing. People liek when everything makes sense and is clear cut. However, when someone decides to be different and break the norms that’s when trends start. Correct me if I’m wrong, but i’m sure there really only used to be very hebrew music or english music. Now there is maccabeats which is considered hebrew music, but some of it is based off modern songs. Slowly overt time people say reasons why it’s ok, withink Halacha of course.
Also different communities have different focuses- Some communities are more focused on chessed, whereas another is more tzinus, whereas another is more into kiruv..., (which I think is great cause all of us Jews are so different) Sometimes you can’t mesh all of these together (I don’t think a family that highly values tznius to the extent that they don’t want any of their children being exposed to untzinus people can do kiruv...)
But isnt the Torah made for everyone...to everything at once?
Shouldnt it be possible to be “tznius” and do “kiruv” at the same time? Can we not eat kosher and also keep Shabbos?
Focusing on one might not mean ignoring another, but does Hashem want us only focusing on one item? Does He want us to do a little bit of everything?
Are there communities that do it all??
I think i became sensitized to this because the people I started surrounding myself with- shiurs, school.. weren’t wearing bright nail polish so I started feeling uncomfortable wearing it around them, and slowly i started noticing that it was pretty eye grabbing. I don’t deny it was somewhat based on my environment, but I just starting feeling uncomfortable. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that though because I can just look at it as another way to connect to Hashem- It’s another level of modesty.
Because this happened to you personally, how do you view others that do not “hold” by your “standards”?
Do you think what your environment did to you was a good thing? Do you wish you were able to not see nailpolish in this way?