Colors
Is Yellow considered bright now-a-days? What is considered to be a stand-out color?
I’m not sure it’s the color itself as much as how much of the color and where the color is. (age 21)
As someone who loves the color red, and wore so much of it when i was in high school, I came to the realization on my own that red is a provocative color. It’s honestly a huge struggle for me-i used to wear red nail polish and everything-but having asked the opinion of many guys regarding what they think of red on girls, i decided for myself to be more sensitive and not wear red. This doesnt mean that I think a hot pink outfit is any more “kosher” or a tight black dress is better than a red shmatta..i think it depends on how things are worn and the statement they you’re conveying..22
Why does it matter what the “guys” opinion of the color is? Is this part of tznius? What realizations did you come too (Can you explain in more detail please)?
And if its a tie-dye shirt? ...or a “tznius length” dress in one color that’s not black?
I think this comes back to where you are... tie-dye shirt in meah shearim= immodest, tie-dye shirt in 5t= no big deal. Same w the dress.
But is there a limit or “scale” you should be putting on yourself? If someone who wears only black comes to 5t will they think that the girl in a tie-die shirt is not dressing tzniusly? is that a correct way to be thinking?
Well maybe she would think so, for her standards, but she shouldn’t be getting all judgmental.
What about the color red mentioned in the Gemara for being not tznius...i think it is because of the association to prostitutes... does that apply to today as well?
I don’t think red today is associated with prostitutes as much (in my community.. in others this may be different) However it does stand out more than most; a red dress is very attention grabbing. Thus it may not be so tznius... this is likely why prostitution was associated with red, they were trying to grab attention.
Is tznius about not drawing attention to one’s self? What about wearing subtle colors and wearing all the “right” things but being naturally beautiful? Should we then cover our WHOLE selves up?
What about speaking in public? Does this not draw attention to one’s self? I think these are all good points that should be brought up. At the end of the day though, there has to be a balance. Go too much to the right, and you end up with extremism that focuses too much on externalities and soon women won’t be ever allowed to leave the house unless they are wrapped in opaque cellophane. But if you go too far to the left and not focus on it, then modesty is lost altogether. When it comes to speaking in public... each situation needs to be taken for itself. Balance is key.
Are certain colors associated to negative/non-tznius/ugly/weird/inappropriate/illegal ideas? Does all black signify something? Does a long white coat symbolize something else?
Sure! Long white coat to me is a doctor, add a hood and its the kkk, if you’re wearing red white and blue you’re patriotic.... not everything indicates something but a lot of times it could. And regardless whether this is correct or not (sometimes I’m right, sometimes I’m not) , I think I associate those who wear all black to be “more frum” than those who wear a lot of colors. I don’t think this is across the board true by any means, but in general I think girls in more religious communities wear more black/dark colors so as to be less ostentatious.
Is this the correct way to be thinking? If not, how do we stop?? How does this idea come to be? Is it true that black is really “more frum”? Is it the correct way to be thinking that long white coats are doctors and guys with pony-tails and leather jackets are motorcyclists? Does this block our judgment of them?
The line between correct and normal here is very blurry! Without making mental conceptions of ideas we would not be able to understand our world! Should we be upset at childrens books for portraying librarians as older women with glasses, as this is judgmental? There comes to a point where we need these “judgments”. Growing up we use it to understand what is what. So if so it is wrong to judge other people, where does the line cross between judging someone as more frum because she wears black and judging someone to be a doctor because he is wearing a long white coat ?
Certain judgments are for our safety or benefit but other judgments can be considered plain mean or unnecessary. How do we draw the line? How do we stop ourselves from jumping to far and drawing unnecessarily conclusions, like "she's so much frummer than me" - how is this beneficial or for our safety? Good question, I think that's a wisdom you gain as you get older.. how to understand the delicate balance of everything and not take one to too far of an extreme... (Age 22)
What does age have to do with it? I get the most bias remarks and judgmental comments from people my parents' age.... sometimes the young are more innocent. How can we teach young children so when they get older they will have already gained this wisdom?
I think you can teach young children by being kind to everyone and refraining from making labelling statements "He is so much frummer than me; you can tell by x". I think you have a good point in saying that some things might be necessary for our benefit or safety - i.e teaching your child what outfit a crossing guard wears or why to stay away from the jeering homeless man. So then, what do you think? how do we exactly find that line? Of where safety and benefit end, and unnecessary judgments begin?
Also what happens when that judgment becomes necessary? If you wanted to know a halacha about shabbos, would you ask the girl wearing the black modest outfit or the girl dressed in the jeans? TRUE- the girl in the jeans may know it better than the girl in the black skirt ever would. But I think it is rational to assume that if one is more careful with halacha in one venue, it is more likely (though admittedly not always the case) that she will be more inclined to know about other areas of halacha as well. Is this considered "judgmental"? Definitely not so black and white ;p (age 22)