Articles/Clips
Office Attire
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/dental-assistant-fired-being-irresistible-devastated-151724600--abc-news-topstories.html
There is definitely a difference between suits and mini skirts, jean skirts and black skirts; I’ve worn plain black skirts to weddings but I wouldn’t wear a jean skirt to one! I read the article and was appalled by it, mostly because this dentist is a moron. Iowa is an employment-at-will state, which means that an employee can be fired at any time for any reason or no reason at all; the employer doesn’t have to provide a reason for firing someone. (New York is also an employment-at-will state, so basically your boss can fire you at any time without any reason whatsoever and it’s totally legal...so if you want to sue them, you need absolute proof that they fired you for religious, ethnic, gender-, age-, or nationality-related reasons. Just thought people should keep this in mind.) Had he followed the law that was specifically written to protect employers of small businesses like himself from being sued by disgruntled ex-employees, he could have saved a lot of time that was spent in court and probably thousands of dollars in legal fees. So he’s an idiot. How he got a medical degree is beyond me. But I digress.
This story also upsets me because it put all the blame on the female employee and basically none on the male employer (who’s an imbecile, in case I didn’t make that clear). Although the court states that he did “make comments” about her inappropriate dress, he obviously didn’t make himself clear because she was completely shocked by the termination. He probably mentioned it once or twice and she didn’t realize that it was all her clothing and not just the specific outfit she had on that day. The court justices also wrote that “Dr. Knight acknowledges he once told Nelson that if she saw his pants bulging, she would know her clothing was too revealing”. So if he gets a boner, she’s not allowed to be disgusted with it like most professional women would be; no, she has to specifically look at his aroused penis and realize that she’s the one who’s acting inappropriately. Not only that, but she’s expected to check his crotch every day when she comes in to work?! And another time he asked her about her orgasms! He apparently seems to think his office is the set for a porno. If this isn’t sexual harassment, then I don’t know what is and I can’t believe she put up with it. I know I wouldn’t.
I am clearly looking at this from more of a feminist and legal standpoint that a religious one, but I really don’t think she holds all the blame. It is important to dress appropriately for work, regardless of your personal considerations; if this story teaches us anything, it is that what is considered appropriate is subjective to your employer’s views. That is why when I go for a job interview, I always dress in modest business attire and then conform to whatever the office dress code is if I get the job. (Age 21)
I hear what you are saying, but try thinking from a different point of view now. She started dressing according to “the office dress code” and look where it got her...But what if there was no dress code? The employer never fired her but...as a result his relationship with his wife took a turn. Yes, I agree he is a disgusting pig and his wife should divorce him, but lets say he, like a lot men, I have certain things that attract them and which they get excited over more than others, but they cannot control themselves for long periods of time. Remember, she worked with him for 10 years!! Its not like she got the job last year and he just sucked it up but now cannot deal with it, they clearly got along before this. Try to write a response from HIS perspective.
The thing is, she wasn’t dressing according to the office dress code because her boss did make comments about how her outfits were inappropriate so she is definitely at fault there. But you say that men “cannot control themselves for long periods of time.” Excuse my language, but why the hell not? What is it about them that makes them unable to keep it in their pants? I can keep it in my pants. Are men not physically able to control themselves like other humans can? And if they can’t (which they can, but let’s just say hypothetically), is that MY problem? This is the concept of blame the victim and it’s the reason why many rapists were never convicted in the past and still aren’t today. In this case, I agree that she did dress inappropriately and her boss was not necessarily wrong to fire her, but for him to blame her on his marriage falling apart is ridiculous. If he had any sort of self-control, his marriage would have been fine, but he’s no better than a dog in heat and instead of taking responsibility for his actions, he put all the fault on his employee! And his wife fell for it! Their real marital problems have nothing to do with this woman, but completely stem from his inability to act like an adult.
Why do you think she dressed “inappropriately” ? What is considered inappropriate? who sets the standards? At Hooters and some clubs and other restaurants it is the dresscode to wear “sluty” outfits... so if this boss decided that the dress code for his office is pants or long skirts what is the difference? Can we argue with the dress code set in place by employers the same way we can argue the dress code put in place by the Rabbis and Torah?
I do believe that men are a seperate category of humans as women are too. Therefore, certain ideas we can control and certain actions they cannot. Just like they are attracted to certain body parts or certain colors or places in the world, so too women are attracted to different body parts on men and like different activities. Example: Most women I know look for a guy that is a bit bigger than they are (not necessarily fat) and taller than they are. They focus alot on his personality as well. Men on the other hand, may look firstly at what size bra he believes the girl to be, how skinny she is and whether or not her hair color meets his standards. Personality usually comes second in line. Yes there are plenty of exceptions but the general idea is that men and women are different on many levels, and this is just one. (see “Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus”).
Killing Us Softly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FpyGwP3yzE
–(recommended to listen to rather than to watch) advertisement - a more secular perspective
“the more you subtract the more you add” - referring to eating...but maybe it could also be referring to clothing too...
Well Dressed or Ill Dressed
http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/774727/_Aliza_Loshinsky/Well-Dressed_or_Ill-Dressed:_The_Health_Risks_and_Benefits_of_Modest_Attire
-I’ll be honest, I didnt read the whole thing
Fascinating. A very creative idea to investigate into the health "pros and cons" so to speak of modesty. (Age 22)
Chariedi Women Want To Vote
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/150447/%27Not-Elected-Not-Voting%27-Facebook-Page-by-Chareidi-Women.html
I feel a mix of ways here: firstly, are some Jews still stuck in the past and think women are not learned...I mean hellooooo Rebbetzin Tziporah Heller...but I also feel that the issue of Tznius is being addressed here and I want to bring that to your attention. Do you agree with this view point of Tznius? Is Tzniut staying out of the spotlot? Or is it being in the spotlot but in a different way? You decide!
I personally feel that women should not be in politics, because I feel that their duty is to their family and if they are involved in politics of any sort then they may leave their children and family members to waste side...ever hear Golda Meir (i think that is how you spell her name), she even says that she feels bad that she could not spend enough time taking care of her children...and I believe they were not that young at all!! But I am not saying that women are incapable of holding such a position, it’s just that priorities may get mixed up.
Banishing Barbie
"Observing the laws of tzniut makes a statement to ourselves and to the world at large that our self-worth is not reliant upon the approval of others, but rather upon doing what is right in God’s eyes. Tzniut frees people from superficiality, and in this way, engenders a stronger sense of self. I am more than my body, and I am no longer ensnarled by the current fads of fashion. Tzniut frees me to soar to ever-greater heights.
By not giving my daughter the Barbies, I was giving her a gift far greater in value. I was giving her the ability to be appreciated for her inner being, and not for her outer trappings. I was giving her a sense of self-esteem and independence. I was giving her dignity and self-control. I was giving her the gift of tzniut."
- “ Banishing Barbie” -Chaya Rivkah Jessel ( Aish.com)
Well said! (Age 22)
Bikini Cover Ups Repealed
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/07/12/bathing-suit-ban-repealed-on-nj-boardwalk/
Why do you think a cover-up was even thought of? Why would people repeal it??
Dear Emuna: Provocative Clothing
Dear Emuna,
I love my wife very much. She is beautiful, smart, devoted, and has a heart of gold. My issue lies with her choice of clothing. We constantly butt heads over as to what seems to be appropriate attire. She tends to wear clothing that's considered to be too provocative for our community standards.
I've gently told her that she should be a little more self-conscious of what she wears in public as it could have an affect on our social life. She implies that I'm clueless when it comes to women's fashion and that there are more pressing matters to deal with other than how much or little she decides to cover up. I've also noticed people giving her weird and uncomfortable looks whenever she wears pants or very short (not mini but very close) dresses/skirts. She dresses the way she does because she wants to feel pretty about herself but sometimes I feel that she crosses the line. I've been showering her with compliments and told her that she is gorgeous as she is. How can I convince her to cover up and dress more conservatively in public without coming off as a control freak (which I'm sometimes accused of)?
Thanks,
Concerned Husband
How would you answer this husband?
The husband is obligated to keep the laws of tznius for his family and that includes his wife. If his wife doesn't listen to him, he is within his rights to divorce her.(age 50, Savta)
The husband clearly does not want to divorce his wife, but he does seem uncomfortable with one aspect of her. Maybe counseling would be a better advice then completly divorce. Or maybe simply moving to a different community, where her choice of clothes is more accepted.
Betar Illit's "Tznius Patrol" in the Headlines
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/157368/betar-illits-tznius-patrol-in-the-headlines.html
Why do you feel the way you do when you read this article? Are you surprised that there is a such a "patrol"? Are you thankful?
Hair Covering and Modesty With Oprah
http://www.aish.com/j/jt/Jtube-Oprah-Hair-Covering--Modesty.html
Do wigs portray a sense of modesty? Does hair-covering only apply to the Chassidic communiy?
How do you feel about women covering their hair?
Protest Against Non-Tznius Dressed Women
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/Israeli+News/165601/Rov-Approves-Protest-Outside-Elad-Resident%27s-Home-for-Violating-Modesty-Standards.html
Why is it okay in some people's eyes to embarrass or protest in public against others?
If there was a protest against Tznius would we respond the same?
Itsy Bitsy TiniWini Yellow Poke-a-dot BIkini
http://www.aish.com/ci/w/Exposed-The-Bikini--I.html
Virtue Makes You Beautiful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oartIE7rKuM
Mormons describe what they believe real beauty is. Are they exaggerating? Do you believe in the same definition they give?
I agree with them completely! When I saw this video I was like "why can't I find a Jewish boy like that?" I think it was a great idea for them to make this video, because it tells me that there are people that don't only look at the outside but look at the inside as well. And better yet these boys are young (yes, I did my research on these boys) they haven't even gone on their mission yet which makes them younger than 20. If you look up people interviewing Mormons you'll find it fascinating that a 16 year old can say that he looks at her smile or her eyes before anything else. They also say that if her outfit is to revealing he would not ask her on a second date if they were set up. (15)
So you don't think there are any Jewish boys that have these views too? Do you believe the Torah says anything about looking at a girl's personality rather then her outfit? Do you think the laws of Tznius were created to help boys see this idea more clearly?
Female Soldier
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/212730/an-open-letter-from-an-idf-female-officer.html
The Pajama Debate
http://www.aish.com/ci/s/The-Pajama-Debate.html?mobile=yes
A principal requests that parents come to school NOT in pajamas. Do you think he is stepping over boundaries? What if you were a parent of the school...
TheModest_Ensembleist Blog
http://www.onlysimchas.com/news/15924/this-los-angeles-tv-producer-has-created-a-blog-to-inspire-others-to-dress-modestly
Chassidic Community
http://www.upworthy.com/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-the-way-hasidic-jews-look-but-were-afraid-to-ask
Some of the classic questions Jews are asked are answered beautifully in this clip. There is a part where some men and women describe their mode of dress. Tell us how you feel about what they say regarding their mode of dress. Do share the same values? Do you dress the same as they do? Why or why not?
Tznius For Men
http://www.aish.com/ci/s/Guys_and_Modesty.html?s=feat
Do you believe there is a Tznius standard for men? Do men have to wear long sleeves too?
Read on and tell us your thoughts!
The Evolution of the Bikini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDUlDXBgLH0&safe=active
So you don't think there are any Jewish boys that have these views too? Do you believe the Torah says anything about looking at a girl's personality rather then her outfit? Do you think the laws of Tznius were created to help boys see this idea more clearly?
Female Soldier
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/212730/an-open-letter-from-an-idf-female-officer.html
The Pajama Debate
http://www.aish.com/ci/s/The-Pajama-Debate.html?mobile=yes
A principal requests that parents come to school NOT in pajamas. Do you think he is stepping over boundaries? What if you were a parent of the school...
TheModest_Ensembleist Blog
http://www.onlysimchas.com/news/15924/this-los-angeles-tv-producer-has-created-a-blog-to-inspire-others-to-dress-modestly
Chassidic Community
http://www.upworthy.com/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-the-way-hasidic-jews-look-but-were-afraid-to-ask
Some of the classic questions Jews are asked are answered beautifully in this clip. There is a part where some men and women describe their mode of dress. Tell us how you feel about what they say regarding their mode of dress. Do share the same values? Do you dress the same as they do? Why or why not?
Tznius For Men
http://www.aish.com/ci/s/Guys_and_Modesty.html?s=feat
Do you believe there is a Tznius standard for men? Do men have to wear long sleeves too?
Read on and tell us your thoughts!
The Evolution of the Bikini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDUlDXBgLH0&safe=active
Real Beauty Sketches
http://www.viewbix.com/v/Jtube--Dove-Real-Beauty-Sketches/10a0020d-a200-4cd6-bf45-7262100dbeba
http://www.viewbix.com/v/Jtube--Dove-Real-Beauty-Sketches/10a0020d-a200-4cd6-bf45-7262100dbeba
Erasing Women and Girls
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1203957973093146&id=243197519169201
This woman raps about how women are being portrayed in Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox media and the affect it is having the boys and men in the community.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1203957973093146&id=243197519169201
This woman raps about how women are being portrayed in Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox media and the affect it is having the boys and men in the community.
The Skin Gap
Should men and women have the same standards of dress?
Should men and women have the same standards of dress?